This is a partial transcript from “Hannity & Colmes,” January 15, 2007, that has been edited for clarity.
SEAN HANNITY, CO-HOST: At the end of this month, the independent movie “Hound Dog” will premier at the Sundance Film Festival. The star of the movie, 12- year-old Dakota Fanning, plays a child who becomes sexually promiscuous and is eventually seen being raped after being physically and sexually abused by her father throughout the entire movie.
And the outrage over the Fanning simulated rape scene has escalated as reports that her mother and agent supported the idea in the hopes of winning her an Oscar. So is this an instance where Hollywood has gone too far?
Joining us now are the chairman of the Christian Film and Television, Dr. Ted Baehr, and the screen writing chairman of the UCLA film school, Richard Walter, is with us.
All right. Ted, you have said this movie looks like a clear case of child abuse to me, and you also said this is nothing less than prostitution and pedophilia. Your thoughts, sir?
DR. TED BAEHR, CHRISTIAN FILM & TV COMMISSION: And it is, you know, and I happen to bring the U.S. code here, title 182256 and section 8, child pornography which says any representation by electronic, mechanical or other means, such visual depiction has been created, adapted or modified to appear identifiable minor is engaging in sexually explicit conduct.
HANNITY: You know something, Richard? I don’t understand how any parent could ever, ever allow their 12-year-old daughter to be involved in a rape scene simulated sex scene and apparently this goes on throughout the whole movie. Do you support that? Do you justify that?
RICHARD WALTER, SCREEN WRITING CHAIRMAN, UCLA FILM SCHOOL: It’s a movie, Sean. It’s a movie. It’s pretend.
HANNITY: It’s a young girl learning about rape and sexual molestation.
WALTER: You know, drama has been ugly and bloody from the very beginning.
BAEHR: You dismiss the fact that it’s against the law.
WALTER: Well, then call the police. That’s not what you’re going to do, though, because you know that has no standing.
HANNITY: Would you let your daughter be an actress in a rape scene and simulated sex with her father?
WALTER: If my daughter were an actress and was going to participate in dramatic expression, I would expect that it would be pretty bloody and pretty violent. That’s the history of dramatic expression.
HANNITY: That’s sick. That’s pathetic.
BAEHR: Children are not — in a world where people are pedophiles…
WALTER: It proves my theme. Why don’t you protect real children who are in real trouble instead of interfering…
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: Guys, one at a time. Hang on a second. Guys, hang on a second. Richard — Richard first, finish your thought, Richard, and then we’ll go back to Ted.
WALTER: The history of dramatic expression is that nobody wants to go see the village of the happy nice people. Responsible, intelligent discourse, that has its place in our world. Shows like this, for example, one hopes engage in that.
HANNITY: Oh yes, this is socially redeeming.
WALTER: But not movies. I’m talking about your own show as being responsible discourse, but that’s not what goes on in movies. In fact, that’s not what should go on in movies.
HANNITY: Let me go to Ted for a second.
WALTER: It’s a safe place for to try out these aspects of our personalities, of our nature.
HANNITY: Richard, here’s the problem. Richard, take a breath. Here is the problem, Ted. This is a 12-year-old little girl. We have an obligation to protect this little girl’s innocence.
WALTER: She’s not being raped. You know she’s not being raped. How can you say that? She’s not under any danger at all.
HANNITY: Richard — Richard, if you don’t let Ted talk, I’m going to turn your mic down. Let him talk.
Ted, this is the point. This is a little girl. Little girls should not be used in scenes like this. She’s a terrific little actress. I’ve seen her in a couple of movies. It’s disgraceful that Hollywood and that her parents would allow her to be used this way.
WALTER: Is it OK to have scenes where children are murdered?
HANNITY: Ted.
BAEHR: Dakota has come to many of our movie awards. She is one of the great actresses. I think she did a beautiful job in “Charlotte’s Web”. The law has been clear for centuries…
WALTER: Then call the cops.
ALAN COLMES, CO-HOST: Ted, hold on, Ted. Let me ask you this.
BAEHR: Anybody under 18 years old.
WALTER: Call the police.
COLMES: Hold on. Hold on, Richard. This is Alan. Ted, should anybody be arrested here?
BAEHR: Actually, there’s two prosecutors that are looking into it, and where the code came from, although I used to work at the U.S. attorney’s office many years ago, was from Larry Clayman (ph), who’s looking into…
COLMES: Do you want — do you want arrests? Do you want arrests, Ted?
BAEHR: I want to see people stop child pornography, pedophilia, abusing children.
COLMES: How is this pedophilia? This is a film…
WALTER: You want to control what people see in the movies.
COLMES: Hold on, Richard. We got — I want to get to Richard in a second. Let everybody be heard.
BAEHR: No, it’s protecting children.
COLMES: Ted, this is a film that is shot. She’s wearing a full body suit. It’s shot in the shadows from the shoulders up. She has a welfare worker, her mother both on the set. This is a drama. Are you never supposed to depict this kind of thing in a movie?
BAEHR: You’re never supposed to depict it to the way that it can show the person actually being raped or that suggests rape.
COLMES: Have you seen it? You don’t see that.
BAEHR: The language — I’ll give the review right here.
COLMES: Did you see it?
BAEHR: OK? She says that — here’s the review. “If your 11-year-old boy should give you a kiss, you’ll take off pants and show you what she’s got.” And in the midst of doing that she gets raped.
COLMES: All right.
WALTER: You don’t see that in the movie.
COLMES: You didn’t actually see the scene, did you?
WALTER: Answer the question, Ted.
COLMES: Did you see the scene?
BAEHR: I said no. I said no…
WALTER: The answer is no, isn’t it, Ted?
COLMES: You didn’t really know what’s in that scene, because you haven’t seen it.
BAEHR: What?
COLMES: You haven’t seen the scene.
WALTER: No, answer is no.
COLMES: You don’t know what’s in it. Right?
BAEHR: You know, we review every single film that comes out.
WALTER: He won’t answer the question.
COLMES: He hasn’t seen it.
BAEHR: I just did, Richard. Have you seen the film?
WALTER: No, you haven’t seen the movie. I certainly have not.
BAEHR: Richard, have you seen the film?
WALTER: I have not seen the film.
BAEHR: Richard, have you seen — OK.
COLMES: The fact is nobody has seen it. It’s not open yet.
BAEHR: You ask over and over if I’ve seen the film. I told you I haven’t seen the film. Neither of us have seen the film.
WALTER: Have you — you got a review of the film. Have you sent somebody to review the film?
BAEHR: I have read reviews of the film.
WALTER: You sent someone to review the film?
BAEHR: I have read reviews of the film.
HANNITY: We have got to break. I do have one last question. I have one last question. Are you suggesting, Richard, that it’s, quote, “a rape scene” of a 12-year-old girl using a real 12-year-old girl can be done in an acceptable manner to you? Are you suggesting that?
WALTER: Yes. In — in “Richard III”, the protagonist murders his own son — his nephews, 9 and 11.
HANNITY: You know what?
WALTER: It’s a Shakespearian classic.
HANNITY: You want to watch — very, very, very, good film.
These kids, look how many kids of Hollywood have grown up, and they have been so messed up, and it’s because people use them. This poor little girl deserves better. We’ve got to run. Thank you both.
BAEHR: Thank you.
HANNITY: Appreciate it.
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